their shift in position has grover norquist vowing to help unseat any republican who breaks his taxpayer protection pledge. the question tonight is whether this is a larger trend or whether republicans are just testing the waters and two men who know about testing the waters, politicking and actually meaning what you say join me now. david frum and james carville, you have been on every side of this. let me start with you though david. republicans talking about raising revenue by closing loopholes. as opposes to raising tax rates. you can get a heck of a lot of revenue that way. is this smart for them r or not? >> republicans are going to be yielding ground, but they have to avoid seemingly yielding ground underressure. president has a strong hand. they have to keep their party together. frankly, i think loopholes are the wrong place to -- so-called loop homes, meaning deductions for home mortgage, are the wrong place to look for new revenue. the place is look is with different kinds of tax sources. not by making it more difficult for people to work save and invest. >> wow, adding even m